AAR for the land Nav weekend 10-09

[aswayze]

In attendance:

Instruction/staff:

Swayze
Hoober
Tascabe
Trucker
Warnick
Abica


Students:

Dad
Rapier

Ensor
Sajputera

Dave Thomas
Davey Thomas

Ben Kelley
TJ Herndon

Stagg
Cox

Coyote
Hell


I'll post more tomorrow, just getting this started.

[aswayze]

 Land Nav weekend AAR

The plan:

Conduct brief classes at stations with students immediately applying the skills taught to move to the next station so that students get an opportunity to apply each of the skills taught.

The performance.

Overall, I believe this system worked well.  Without a doubt, this was the best land nav course I feel we have yet fielded.  There are obviously some opportunities for improvement but none of them is a real deal breaker.   Classes went smoothly and students seemed to really be grasping the material. 

Issues/Fixes

Improve: start off timing.   Dealing with infrastructure and radios took too long in the morning.  In the future, all radios should be set up and tested the evening before and no large infrastructure should be packed along.   When someone is late/missing do not delay that teams start time, just let the late/missing person catch up instead.

Improve: maps.     We had new maps this time around.  Steven just got done with them the day we left and sufficient time was not allotted to double checking features (like 1000M grids instead of 100m) and line weights.   Additionally, with the maps literally hot off of the presses, no time was available to apply fixative to keep them water repellent.  Previous MTNF Tabloid maps were available in quantities sufficient to supply most but not all teams.     

Improve: traffic jams at early stations.  As the event progressed, spacing between teams opened up pretty well and participants did not generally get delayed at stations but early on, some teams had fairly extensive wait times.  Doubling up of instruction staff at stations 1-3 would have helped a great deal.   Obviously going to 3 man instead of 2 man teams would have also helped but I prefer to make sure the students are having to do the nav work. 

Improve: Student equipment preparedness.  Some students had excessive equipment weight causing them some serious strain on the hikes.   Others were I’ll prepared for the weather conditions or had forgotten key parts of their equipment (like sleeping bags). 

Improve: (or at least de-sustain) Move students equipment up to patrol base early on in event and let students run lighter during the event itself.   I do want people walking with their gear for at least some of this because that is how you know what you need to fix or change, but perhaps all of this is much more work than needed. 

Improve: meal prep equipment.   We are very well set up for full bore event cooking.  We have the MKT and the Soviets have a full blown kitchen as well.  What we do not have is a lighter/more portable kitchen rig for smaller events such as this.   We need to beg/borrow/steal one of the MBU stands from the MVPA’s now stripped MKT and pack either an MBU (when a Deuce is available for power) or an M1937 fire unit when it is not to cook on as well as a smaller propane stove to heat side dishes on.  The stand will allow us to cook either pots of food or of course use the little grill top off of an M59 range to cook pretty much anything we want plus of course we can use a large pot to heat up water for dish washing once we are done.   This adds bulk to what we need to carry out with us, but I think it is important. 

Improve:  Do not attempt to carry additional weight in equipment that is unrelated to what we are doing to the event.   The GP Small was a huge logistical burden to deal with when we were already pretty packed up.  Having the 5 man arctic along as well was nice on Friday night but in reality we would have had a lot easier time moving ourselves out there had we left those behind. 

Improve:  Manage time better to allow more night time practical exercises OR change schedule a bit and teach a single night time operations class then send each team out with a single cadre/instructor along on their night movement leg. 

Improve:  Have a crop duster spray entire area down with anti-redneck spray or post up a “ain’t no deers here no how” sign so that we don’t have to worry so much with them.  This time around, they were ok, but in the past we have had a lot of issues with the bubbas taking things that we prestaged in the woods or otherwise being a PITA.  In reality, there is no avoiding deer season, we just need to plan for it a bit and perhaps look at state parks or areas that do not allow hunting. 
 
Sustain:  Class concept.  Everyone seemed to like how the event worked out and everyone seemed to learn a great deal.

Sustain: Class structure.  The classes taught seemed to flow well and each one seemed to add on to the previous class pretty well. 

Sustain: Keeping this a “light” event.  I think that having less infrastructure along helps us focus on the teaching at hand and saved a lot of time when bailing out on Sunday.  Given that this is by necessity going to be a very physical event for everyone, getting us moving out on Sunday in a timely manner is a big help.  I know I took a MIGHTY nap when I got home and I am sure I was not alone.   While this particular event had a lot of extra crap along, we could have been a little lighter and should keep with that system in future nav classes. 

Sustain: Use of shelter halves and/or plasch/Zelts at field events.   Steven and I had shelter halves that we had treated with canvak where as the Dave Thomases (both of them) had untreated ones.   Since we fielded these this time we had a very good peer to peer comparison of treated vs. untreated canvas.   Likewise, Warnick, TJ, and Ben set up a single shelter half to cover all three of their heads and slept out in bivys with very good results and Tascabe stayed quite dry just sleeping under his plasch.   Overall, we identified several issues, fixes and sustains with our light tentage that will hopefully serve us well in the future.   Adding the Butan tentage into this mix would have been a good option as well.     

 Comments:

As I said, overall I think this event was very successful.  The improves are many but they are all fairly minor, the sustains are few but they are all major.   I liked it and I look forward to doing this one again. 

[Shoobe01]

Move students equipment up to patrol base early on in event and let students run lighter during the event itself.

I went out expecting many gear failures by students, and hauled around wire ties, tape, etc. all ready for this. The only reason I think we had not so many issues is that it was a generally experienced crew (or when gear failures happened, their buddy could help). Perhaps require new people, and totally new gear setups for experienced folks, to be carried further than others as a shakedown procedure?

[abica]

Informal AAR from my end of the operation:

This weekend, I filled my usual role of readying and issuing East Bloc radios, and acted as the "TOC" for the duration of the exercise.  

Keeping in mind that this was a NAV weekend, not a COMMS exercise, it was still a good opportunity for 15-odd participants to get a bit of practice.  We also got to guinea-pig EB guys carrying an R-105M along with a combat load.


1)  RADIOS:

Radio issue on the EB side is getting smoother as we learn (through experience like this weekend) the ins and outs.  Brett and I get things running a little more quickly each time, but there is still improvement to be made in that department.  I'm beginning to think more and more that soldered & taped battery packs are the way to go, similar to our "field expedient packs" from June, but maybe with Dean's plugs.  Power issues plague us every time we field the R-105Ms, but at least we're starting to see the signs and learn the idiosyncrasies of the 105.

Stagg and Hell both retained a fair amount of knowledge from Comms I, and with a couple reminders, were able to set up their radios without any difficulties.

Radio performance: The R-105 once again performed very well.  Running it, with a PRC-77 as backup, I only switched to the -77 when the net mysteriously failed (Read: nobody was monitoring a radio at WPT 6).  

Carrying the R-105M in the field with a combat load, eh, isn't pretty.  

Stagg's setup looked pretty good and solid, and I want a report from him on it's effectiveness, comfort, etc.  It involved attaching the radio to the DDR webbing and lashing the Sturmgepack to the radio.  

Hell's setup was...hellish, or so it appeared to me.  Radio on back, sidr (vesh meshok) is put on over top the radio.  The pack ends up riding very high, and looks none too comfortable, unbalanced, and IF DONE WRONG (edit) puts a certain amount of strain on the antenna.  You have to feed the antenna through the left strap of the pack, then have someone help you get the pack on.  After talking to Hell, the rig, as pictured here, is not acceptable, in that it cuts off circulation to your arms.  Coyote helped adjust it, bringing the straps lower on the radio, which allowed finger-wiggling and sensation to return.  Hell's other complaint was that the weight of the pack is waaay out in space, and an upper back terror.  I don't think there's much that can be done about that, though.






2)  RUNNING THE "TOC" FOR THE EXERCISE:

I got to gain some experience controlling an exercise, that is, keeping track of who's doing what and where.  As simple as it is, I had a little trouble for the first 45 minutes or so, and then got my system down pat.  By the afternoon, it was no problem to handle multiple incoming transmissions- control the traffic, jot everything down, decode messages, formulate replies, etc., in a timely fashion.

I took a bit of a "hands off" approach to my end of the radio net, not interjecting many ideas of how comms should be handled- basically I handled the weekend like an experiment, and as such needed to establish a baseline to improve upon.  Now that I'm home, I'm glad I did it that way, because I see a couple areas to improve on the EB side:

~Scheduled check-ins.  Calling in every XX minutes (30 or 60, depending on situation) will slow operations down by about 5 min per hour, but without regular contact, C&C and situational awareness are both impossible to maintain.  At about 17:00, I still had 1 or 2 teams "en route to waypoint 3" that then popped up again leaving waypoint 4.  Yes, this could have been corrected, but remember, I was doing the "control group" of the experiment.  (These teams WERE issued radios).  I'm not too clear on the instructions issued to teams regarding check-ins, so maybe they just didn't know.  

~Locating a radio station.  Yet another foray into the wide weird world of FM signals.  I moved my station 5 times throughout the day to find a place from which I could reach EVERY waypoint with good signal strength/clarity.  The final location was 5-10m from a spot that cut comms off from wpt 5.  (This must have been funny to watch- every time I'd move, traffic came in.  Desk, radios, KFG-78, wires, and half-eaten lunch...ahh!)

~After the sun went down.  I didn't know what the ever-loving frack was going on.  C&C from the TOC, as it was, was completely cut off.  Admin was busy fragging the original op plan, so I understand that, but I had no idea what the hell was going on down at the cliff (wpt 6), and a little communication could have possibly made things smoother and saved some folks a trip or two up to the staging area.  

This is a nice way of saying "why the hell was NOBODY on RADIO WATCH down there?!?!?!  WPT 6 needed maps, then didn't.  Then they went off the net.  Then Admin needed to talk to them.  "No dice, a bear ate all 15 guys down there and threw the squawking radios off the cliff."  Oh well, they sent a runner instead of using the magic talk box and everyone sat by the cliff for a while, doing nothing.

I realize this is a land nav exercise, but people- if you hump the heavy friggin' thing all day, don't you think you should follow SOP and make damn sure at least one guy is monitoring it 100% of the time?  (So says the guy who sat at a table in the woods, badly needing to take a crap for 7 hours because he knows that someone MUST TAKE RADIO WATCH NO MATTER WHAT)  

The EB side will not have this problem at EWIII.  If this was a hot situation this weekend, there would have been hell to pay, for those who survived, anyway.


3)  GENERAL

~Radio procedure.  We had students with a wide variety of experience, and I'm pleased with how well everyone did.  The early part of the day was a bit awkward for some folks, but by midway through training, messages were transmitted using good radio procedure and proper use of SOI a good majority of the time.  Several folks demonstrated creative use of SOI to send info that wasn't plainly on the card.  

~Shelters in the field.  This is a good idea to slim things down from using GP or East Bloc tentage.  I'd put my vote in the "Butan tent" bag for the Soviets.  I might be soft, but I shudder to think of, say, Hell and I using our plashes to make a tent, open on both ends, and being very comfy at night, without the benefit of the plash as a burrito wrap.  Butan tents are enclosed, which is pretty nice in winter.

All in all, it was a good weekend.  Indigenous population got in our way, and there were some areas for improvement, but everyone I talked too echoed that the teaching method was very good.  

It was kind of funny for me when I finally broke down my forest hideout office- you know you're a rare desk jockey indeed when you find yourself stumbling through the woods in the dark at midnight with a table, chair, and stack of paperwork.    

Good times!

[d.thomas]

OK, MY VIEWS AS THE FNG.

I thought it was a great course. learned a lot. Davey would have learned a lot more if he was a bit more medicated(myu fault). He still got the whole concept of it and i would trust him with a commpass to lead me to the front door at least.

maps, i thought were great. saw no probelm there myself. other than i would love to ahve a glow in the dark map case....(can you show more pics of that thing and how it was made and where you got the stuff)

as far as the lay out, i thought for me anyhow it worked great, a bit of a back up a tthe stations gave me a bit of time to rest, eval my equip and prepare myself for the next leg.

as far as my equiop...yeah it was heavy, i had a lot in there i "thought" i   might need. i didnt need any of it and dumped most of it when i thought i could. Davey had a lot to carry, he carried the entire 2 shelter halves, his bag, and other various equip, he did very well for a small guy carrying so much.


i agree for a newbee that carrying all that stuff does detract and distract from actually learning what i set out to learn, i would have rather carried a canteen of water, my map and compass, and concentrate on that stuff rather than worry about my ruck, how it was worn, how to amke it wear better, etc. I still did what i needed to do.

meal prep....yeah yeah i hear ya,,,come over and get what ever you need out of the mkt,,,just dont loose it or break it or they will be mad....lol. maybe we should make a small mkt out of the mvpa groups 116 3/4 ton generator trailer, that can be pulled even by a crown vic!

my 2 shelter halves were not treated and yeah they got wet. we stayed dry in tit just fine. but i was like the little kid in a tent knowing i shuoldnt touch the side of the wet canvas or it will leak,,so i did anyhow,,,and i did leak...they will be treated for the ext time..i have several and all will be treated actually. the use of the shelter halves worked quite well. actually it worked a bit too well, i climbed in and fell alseep be fore i should ahve. davey was out first, i was going to get him up to ahve him help shoobee put his up.


as far as the crop duster,,i know a guy thatflys, you find the anti bubba stuff and he will sprray it. I agree signs would help, may not deter amy form anyhting but would at least let them know that the crazy guys playing army ae going to be walking and crawling all thhrough the woods all weekend, day and night.


as far as another location to do it or any other event,,how about camp naish? ther are lots of things,,places, woods, etc out there. sort of urban type stuff all the way to complete dark forest woods stuff. might be a possbility?

[cannon fodder]

question for those NVA who went.

what was an effective way to carry a sleeping bag?

[Stagg]

Just like the NATO guy you have three options. 
-Tie it on top.
-Stuff it inside
-Tie it on the bottom.

Those are really the only choices.

This weekend Coyote, used the duffle bag method (previously used by us at EWII) and came to the same conclusion.  Un-sat, for marching any farther than the barracks door.

Kevin Cox, stuffed his sleeping bag into an assualt pack.  Works swell, if you have a spare bag.  It was filled 100% full.  Just remember that your mission may require other stuff to be placed in there too.

I carried only my zeltbahn and NVA blacket, rolled and attached on top, and a sleeping pad tied to the bottom.  Worked well in the 40-ish degree nighttime temps.

If you have an inflatable pad I would roll it up with/inside the sleeping bag, and then tie that underneath the one/two assualt packs.  This is the prefered method, in my opinion.

If you have a foam pad then I would tie on top, or tie it down below, beside the sleeping bag.
If it was me I would be tempted to tie the sleeping bag to the first pack (against your back) and tie the pad onto the second pack, so the two can be separated, without untieing a huge mess of string.

This option could also be switched and done on top.  That would place more of the load higher up on your shoulders. 

Obviously all that will change if you also have to carry a Radio, but that can be covered else where.

[coyote]

After thinking for a few days about where I hurt I figured out that the duffle was not really unblanced or that I was carring too much gear. I am really only hurting where the straps dug into my shoulders. I am sure my body & the duffle made a nice V shape with combat pack shoved between.

I think Stagg is right with the idea of carrying both packs & mounting the bag on top. I think it would ride best this way. But below would be best for someone carring the radio.

Lastly, I think I should have hooked my extra canteens to my belt so the weight could have ridden else where. While not that much, every little bit helps.

But was happy to see what water proofing the heck out of my zelts did. I was nice & dry. well at least the part of me that was covered.

As far as the class goes, I was happy with the way things turned out. I retained alot more because I was able to focus on that skill right away.

[Trucker]

I was at station 4. I was there for two hours before the first team showed. After that the next two teams seamed to be space well. Some where in there I hoofed back to the base camp for an MRE. Then a couple of hikers came up the road. I questioned them to extract some Intel on what they saw down the trail. From this intel I concluded there was a traffic jam of at least three teams at station 3. I knew this would give time to eat. A little later the last three teams showed all together. No problems here. Yes there is a comms problem. After Swayze brought me a PRC77 I could hear most everyone. After a while all I could hear was Abica. Station 3 was the closest to me and I could barely make him out. Station 5 was just chicken scratching noise. This still needs to be adressed.

[abica]

I humbly quote the comms guy:

~Locating a radio station.  Yet another foray into the wide weird world of FM signals.  I moved my station 5 times throughout the day to find a place from which I could reach EVERY waypoint with good signal strength/clarity.  The final location was 5-10m from a spot that cut comms off from wpt 5.

 

The R-105M might be a little more finicky than the PRC-77, but I'll also add that once I wised up and stopped dragging my whole setup around, I used the PRC-77 to scout a couple possible locations- its behavior was in line with the R-105M regarding hearing/not hearing other stations.  Actually, it was surprising how close the two set's performance was, because I know the 77 has a slight edge in performance.

[Shoobe01]

Forgot one until I saw my notes:


Difficult or impossible to communicate administrative needs to other instructional/administrative staff.

Network not designed (permitted) to support non-tactical (simulated) traffic.
No fallback communications method of any sort available.
No additional staff meant no method to create ad hoc fallback communications, e.g. runners.

Add an admin-specific network. Plan on using it for unencrypted traffic, since admin information is unpredictable, so CEOI is difficult/impossible to create. This does not imply any technology; additional staff to act as runners is included in the suitable solutions.