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Author Topic: The Uniform of 7POTA  (Read 6276 times)
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« on: November 13, 2013, 02:31:03 pm »

Weird... can we still post polls? I don't see the option for one...

Anyway, What's everyone's thoughts on our two Gold Standard uniforms, VSR and Afghanka?

M88 Afghanka is getting harder to find, and more expensive when available.  VSR still appears to be fairly common (summer wise, good luck with Winter VSR...) at reasonable prices.

For two East Winds in a row, I have lugged both 2 sets of Afghanka and 2 sets of VSR to the event, and the VSR has sat unused, since damn near everyone owns Afghanka.

I am wondering if we should make an unofficial push to transition to VSR so that we don't continue to use/abuse/destroy what are becoming collectible items.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

I've got two sets of VSR I've never worn, and a VSR winter parka I wore to my first EW.  I'm strongly considering leaving my 3 sets of Afghanka and Winter Afghanka at home this year.

I know new folks are being encouraged to find and wear VSR, but 7POTA seems to consist mostly of vets from at least EW-IV, myself included.  Should we switch or just go with the flow?  Will it bother people if a section is half wearing M88 and VSR?  We've seen the photos of Russians in squads of mixed camo types, sometimes even different pants and jackets.  It's my understanding that Tascabe is trying to avoid this, because we're not at the stage of a long and grueling conflict where everyone has to make due with what they have, but the onset of the war, where we're all spit shined and polished and looking forward to cutting our teeth in a possible armed conflict on the horizon.

I guess tl;dr: I don't want to be the only dickhead wearing VSR.  Who's with me?  No problems if all you have is winter Afghanka, since VSR is just as rare, if not more rare, and quite pricy, but I'm talking summer uniforms.

KZS/KLMK and Gorka of course are highly recommended, and last year most of us had these.
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 02:39:42 pm »

VSR is pretty damned effective camouflage... people should be considering that when they do their mission planning.  I have yet to meet a badass-looking DEAD guy.

I haven't decided which side to join this year Shocked but I would be wearing my VSR pretty much all the time if the guns ever go hot.
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 04:05:36 pm »

The best two camos for East Wind season (considering almost complete lack of leafy vegetation, sans for some areas with fresh grass) are the Strichtarn and Afghanka (and Gorka, since it's the same color). VSR has way too much dark green for March. For fresh grass, KLMK is also better than VSR.
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 04:06:04 pm »

Thing is Soviets loved to use oversuits anyway. So if you have Afghanka with a KLMK/KZS over it your Afghanka is gonna stay pretty minty. This is from my own experience as being Soviet over the years.
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 04:56:25 pm »

The best two camos for East Wind season (considering almost complete lack of leafy vegetation, sans for some areas with fresh grass) are the Strichtarn and Afghanka (and Gorka, since it's the same color). VSR has way too much dark green for March. For fresh grass, KLMK is also better than VSR.
I'd disagree- strichtarn becomes solid green past 10 feet, which is effective as green uniforms can be. The older fleck uniforms are mostly grey with light brown and green thrown in-you freaking disappear out there in flecktarn.
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 05:13:27 pm »

VSR is pretty damned effective camouflage... people should be considering that when they do their mission planning.  I have yet to meet a badass-looking DEAD guy.

I personally disagree with this notion.  I want to look the part of late 1980s soldier and not the soldier in the most effective camo.   For East Germans it is easy, one and done but the Soviets have somewhat of a choice.   I believe the choice should be what is the most correct, with a dab of consideration for collector value and availability.   East Wind in my mind is a simulation of a "what-if" that both comes to a conclusion but also provides a great experience.   To better understand that "what-if" and experience, I want to portray a close as possible.

I believe personally the Afghanka is sexy, but I do understand the consideration for VSR.   I will though not weight in since I do not know the commonality for this time period but only ask that we take into consideration historical precedent and not the "cool" factor.

On the issue of the East German rain pattern, it really depends on what versions of cloth you get.   I have some that turn a greyish brown and others that turn green at distance.   
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 05:51:32 pm »

Why not just have the gold standard be Afghanka or VSR and leave it at that?
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 06:07:27 pm »

I'd disagree- strichtarn becomes solid green past 10 feet, which is effective as green uniforms can be. The older fleck uniforms are mostly grey with light brown and green thrown in-you freaking disappear out there in flecktarn.

It does become solid, no argument about that... but it's not as green (or as dark) as any other camo uniforms - woodland, OD, DPM, fleck (unless fleck has been worn out heavily).
For East Wind terrain, Afghanka seems to be the best camo color, followed by strichtarn, then everything else...

By the way, speaking of VSR, soldiers in Chechnya (which is where it was first widely used in combat) really liked it due to it's camouflaging abilities in the greens, but would still cover it with dust and wash it out a bit to get rid of the brightness of the new fabric.
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 06:11:45 pm »

Why not just have the gold standard be Afghanka or VSR and leave it at that?

That's what it currently is.

I'm simply trying to find out if anybody else will be taking advantage of the new addition to the gold standard: VSR.
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 08:54:58 pm »

Why not just have the gold standard be Afghanka or VSR and leave it at that?

That's what it currently is.

I'm simply trying to find out if anybody else will be taking advantage of the new addition to the gold standard: VSR.

Well, please take this for what it's worth:

Speaking as one who hopes to give the whole Soviet thing a whirl in 2015 and one who still has a degree of "looking from the outside in" on this topic - I know that finding Afghanka at all is getting pretty difficult in any size beyond size smurf.

That's dandy in the short term for the established core of Soviet players who already have theirs, but thinking forward and in terms of making the Soviet side more accessible and sustainable - I think VSR makes the most sense. I like my "look cool factor" as much as the next comrade (and I defenitely DO prefer my Afghanka over my VSR) but practical/logistical considerations and uniformity should take precedence in my opinion.

VSR isn't as readily available as we'd all like either - but it defenitely can still be sourced (even in larger sizes) without too much difficulty as well as the winter stuff too. Hell, I just snagged a summer set of 62-5 VSR off eBay a couple of weeks ago for one of the guys in our Soviet Section up here - so those big boy VSR uniforms are out there. Now, if I found a set of Afghanka in that size, then the same seller probably carries Unicorns too. Wink

I'm a 58-5 and I haven't had much trouble sourcing summer or winter VSR for myself and I'm by no means a smurf. Afghanka on the other hand though - I've only managed to find two shirts and one pair of pants in my size and those were not cheap compared to what I paid for my VSR.

I haven't completely given up hope on Winter Afghanka in my size but I realized that I need to get my ass out doors at night and start making more of a concerted effort wishing upon falling stars if I really truly want some winter Afghanka in my size. Wink

I can't imagine how many goats would need to be sacrificed or which holy words must be spoken by guys even bigger than me who are looking for any kind of Afghanka in their sizes. Wink

Anyhow, my point is that thinking towards the future and making the Soviet contingent more sustainable by removing some of the logistical barriers is only going to be genuinely possible if the "Gold Standard" is more accessible and therefore attainable.

I'm not saying the only people interested in going Soviet are larger fellas, I'm saying by choosing a uniform which is woefully hard to get in human sizes and near impossible in larger sizes you're effectively ruling some folks out by default if the focus is kept on Afghanka.

Although VSR isn't exactly easy to find its self - it is considerably easier to find than Afghanka, in summer and in winter and in larger sizes which means - less of a logistical hurdle for fresh meat.

Why not relegate Afghanka to one of the tertiary uniforms along with the M69HeBe or TTsKO?

In the short term, for all the guys who have their Afghankas so long as it remains as prolific within the Soviet ranks as it currently is - then why not (by section/squad) also determine the current days dress and bounce between both VSR and Afghanka as you go? Less use of the aging Afghanka and actual use of the less well worn VSR? Maybe that's too much practicality overshadowing immersion? (I'm genuinely asking and not trying to be a rhetorical smart ass).

I don't think I need to spell out how the whole wearing different uniforms thing can mess with the enemy's attempts to keep track of all the Ruskies they see ditty bopping about. Wink

As for the question about the effectiveness of cam patterns at the DDAP, to me that question (or argument) is more of a superficial consideration than a practical or logistical one. As we all know, movement is one of those key reasons "why things are seen" and it will betray your position no matter what what cam pattern you're wearing - especially within AEG/GBBR ranges. If you're stationary and trying to hide then pretty much any flat colour or combination of flat colours apart from white (well - unless it snowed out anyways) is going to serve you in good stead.

Anyhow, when I'm able to go Soviet I'm defenitely hoping to rock my VSR. Mostly because I'm pretty sure I'll need a winter uniform at least at night and I'm more likely to find that unicorn than I am a set of winter Afghanka in my size. Wink

And being a team playerm, I defenitely do NOT want to be that lone individual in VSR at night because that's all he was able to find while the rest of his section (we'll call them the cool kids) are all in their Winter Afghankas comiserating amongst each other as to how long their Winter VSR has sat dormant at the bottom of their foot lockers. Wink

Anyhow, again - take it for what it's worth. Smiley

Cheers!!
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 09:28:15 pm »

I know what I speak is nonsense, but save for the last two months (in which I can't spend anything, of course), I have never seen as much afghanka in my  size (50-4) being offered up by people compared to the larger sizes.  I don't consider myself a smurf, but it seems odd that the size is usually a ghost, you think it would be given away if there was so much of it.  VSR as well typically, which is a shame since I have wanted to see how effective it was up here (plus my afghanka has too many hazard paint covered fields here for it).

Of course, I am talking stateside and also as an outside observer, so all that is pretty much made redundant.

Heck, what about those mixed sets, like if someone managed to get a winter afghanka top in their size but the only bottom winter set they can find is VSR?  Reverse as well and same with the summer sets.  I've mentioned before my strange desire to mix the khaki and olive drab afghankas, what if that was what someone had?
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 09:38:59 pm »

@Menshof
Funnily enough, there's this Russian surplus store that used to carry a ton of Afghankas and two years ago we bought a lot of stuff from there. So at this moment, the only size he's got is 50-4  Grin Grin Grin

http://kapterka.su/product/afganka-letnjaja-pesok/

Correction. 50-4 is the only size for 2500 rubles. These sizes are available for 3500 rubles: 54/3, 54/4, 54/6, 58/4
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 09:46:50 pm »

@Menshof
Funnily enough, there's this Russian surplus store that used to carry a ton of Afghankas and two years ago we bought a lot of stuff from there. So at this moment, the only size he's got is 50-4  Grin Grin Grin

http://kapterka.su/product/afganka-letnjaja-pesok/

Correction. 50-4 is the only size for 2500 rubles. These sizes are available for 3500 rubles: 54/3, 54/4, 54/6, 58/4

2500 rubles = $76.34, that's pretty cheap.  Too bad when you switch to USD on the site they list it as $104...
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 09:48:39 pm »

Heck, what about those mixed sets, like if someone managed to get a winter afghanka top in their size but the only bottom winter set they can find is VSR?  Reverse as well and same with the summer sets.  I've mentioned before my strange desire to mix the khaki and olive drab afghankas, what if that was what someone had?
Rules say you've gotta match, the Gold standard exists precisely because the mix and match thing looked so poor in the first years of EW.

In that event I'd wear polypro under my summer pants. I usually like this better anyway no matter which side I am on. Remember the Russian winter stuff is designed for a dry-cold environment, not a wet-cold one. Last thing I want is 100 pounds of soppy wet cotton down around my legs the second I go prone or kneel in snow or mud.

The German moleskin stuff was like that, super warm but the shell is cotton. Inside on those is muppet fur so you're fine on that one, the Russian "down" however seems to be made of dryer lint and rodent-cage paper fluff.

EG winter gear is surprisingly good in that respect. They saved all the cardboard for the Trabants I guess.
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 09:53:36 pm »

why even have a gold standard? It doesn't do do anything but confuse the rest of humanity while wile making it hard for anyone new to the forums understand what is actually required.  

just a thought, you could make the standard one of any of the uniforms listed here http://www.operationeastwind.com/wiki/Soviet_Uniform that way there is no bias towards any uniform and you don't have the problem of you guys sounding like a bunch of pricks?  

when someone asks about uniforms, instead scaring them off with a chairman Moi sermon about gold standards, you can just say "any one of these you can find that fit you and are affordable will work http://www.operationeastwind.com/wiki/Soviet_Uniform".

you might find yourself with new players showing up after that.

Just an idea
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