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Author Topic: NATO Troop Tent Policy Change 2014 onward.  (Read 4729 times)
aswayze
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« on: March 27, 2014, 06:17:50 am »

Last year we implemented some changes on troop tents as detailed here:

http://www.operationeastwind.com/forum/index.php?topic=3058.msg36136#msg36136

The changes were not a success as again, the work load taking down and stowing troop tents and heaters was not equitably split leaving a tremendous burden again on a select few.  This is simply not a sustainable situation.  

From here forward:

Large troop tents will not be provided by the event.   The gear requirements, as they always have, include perfectly serviceable tents in the shelter halves/zelts/Bashas we all carry with us so those become the new default tents for troops.  Squads may of course at their option choose to bring along a larger troop tent but they will take full responsibility for it.   There are already groups that choose to do this, the Canadian section, the U.K. Section (Dave Thomas's TEMPER tent), and of course several U.S. squads in the past.  It is not an undue burden.  Keeping track of set up, tear down, cleaning, drying, and repairing ONE tent is a snap, it's dealing with large amounts of them that is difficult.   As always, the Wiki has a bounty of information related to tents as well as our rules regarding them available here: http://operationeastwind.com/wiki/NATO_Tent_Rules_and_Requirements

Tent heaters, similarly will be the responsibility of the individual squads.   There are already plenty of these kicking around in individual hands plus of course they are available locally (to the event) at Bunker Surplus so again this will not pose an serious burden.   Aside from that, tent heat is a nice thing to have but is of course by no means a necessity.   The tent heater Wiki here has information related to tent heater rules: http://operationeastwind.com/wiki/NATO_Heater_Rules_and_Requirements  

Tent floors were offered up at the end of this last event to anyone who wanted them.  Many of you wisely chose to take some with you and will be fully prepared for the upcoming robot apocalypse (or the next East Wind of course) with nice padded tent floors.   The remainder of the excess floors in inventory will be disposed of this coming weekend.   In the future, if floors are desired, they are again the full responsibility of the individual squads.  We will retain floors for both the Ready tent and TOC so both of the larger common use tents will continue to have floors.  

In all cases above, I will remain ever vigilant in my searches for good deals and will keep everyone apprised of my findings.   In general, larger format military tents are quite affordable expense wise but do require some basic maintenance work to keep in tip top shape.  Those of you who hunt or have families that like to camp will likely find a great deal of use out of your tents outside of East Wind as well so make the best of what we have and enjoy the opportunity to buy a new toy!  (Secretly the reason we all do East Wind anyhow)



« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 07:01:46 am by aswayze » Logged
Exarach
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 07:42:01 am »

Dang!
I am 50/50.
The large tents were so nice. But, I did bring a fully loaded shelter half that didn't see any use....

Those tents looked like they would have been quite a job to take down with only 4-5 guys!

SO, will the old tents be available for rent/purchase at future events?
Or are they just too much space/time/hassle/mess, and are being sold off dispossessed of asap?
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 08:27:29 am »

4-5 guys?  Last weekend we were taking down squad tents with 2 people sometimes 3.  Also did the Ready tent that way.

The squads could have taken their tent down, brushed it off, folded it up and stashed it in less than an hour.  Instead 2-3 guys have to keep going down there and doing the work slowly over several weekends to get them all done.

For those that "live far away"  Swayze, Curfman, and I have logged over 1200 miles going TO Eastwind.  This weekend we will have made over 1000 miles coming FROM eastwind.  
Much of this is in Military Vehicles that get less than 10mpg!  And we don't carpool very much, because of the number of vehicles that have to get down there!
EW would literally be easier and cheaper for me if I lived on the East/West coast, paid to truck my vehicles in, and then flew in on Thursday, and Flew out on Monday.

Tascabe has DOUBLE that distance to drive!  In a truck with a long trailer, or a Deuce.

The crazy thing is this.  We are almost done this weekend.
Take down the TOC/HQ tents, pack up a few bits and pieces.... oh wait.... there are still troop tents to take down, clean and fill up.  Trenches to fill, and personal equipment to round up.
We could be done and home early, BUT there are those stupid squad tents to take care of.

Do we plan and execute EW just so people can ignore the parts they don't want to do?
Last year we planned out how this would work.

Seriously read this thread:
http://www.operationeastwind.com/forum/index.php?topic=3058.msg36136#msg36136

Look at the standard set for EW for both sides... now look at what actually happened.

This year the EB side troops took down their tents packed them up and were gone that weekend.
One tent was left up for sleeping shelter in the rain storm that hammered that place on Sunday.  

Brett told them to leave it up.  Admin's call.
Curfman and I took it down last weekend.  And it would have been nice if some of the local East Germans could have showed up to help out....but it was not a priority for them.  Only the owner of the tent cares enough to get it stored securely out of the weather.

On the NATO side.  ALL OF THE TROOP TENTS WERE LEFT UP, with the exception of the Canadians, and Females quarters. While they might need a lesson on packing tents smaller, they did the job and still had time for BBQ on the way out!

Dirtpro showed up and took down his squad tent this past weekend.    

As of this moment here is the roster for this weekend:

Swayze  - AWAYS there as NATO ADMIN
Stagg  - AWAYS there and EB to boot
Curfman  - AWAYS there and again EB
David - AWAYS there
Brett AWAYS there as EB Admin
Cardz: EB player coming to help take down his sleeping tent/HQ, also helps out during the year in StL.

Where is everybody else?  Every year you know we are going to take shit down.

The "DANG!" moment came and went last weekend when the NATO camp still looked as picture perfect after the event as it did during EW.

The EB guys may luck out, and get to borrow tents again next year.  Mostly because the Russian tents routinely get taken care of each year, and the EG tents were put up and taken down with minimal fuss.



« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 08:34:47 am by Stagg » Logged

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aswayze
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 09:51:57 am »

Ridding ones self of nice tents is surprisingly easy.  In fact, most are already gone just about like I tend to do every year as I cycle old tents out and new tents in.   One of the smalls that was up already belonged to Gallion (It's coming down this weekend)  two of them have now been shifted off to the Sea Cadets up in Canada in exchange for MREs leaving us with 1 five man arctic, Norris's 10 man arctic, and 3 MGPTS mediums.  One for the TOC, one for the Ready tent, and one extra which I will likely hold on to as a reserve since as on anything else East Wind related three is two, two is one, and one is none.   

Like I said, I will bird dog up tent deals, I am shockingly good at that.  This need not be viewed as a bad thing since in all reality it isn't.  It just means that some of you are going to end up getting killer good deals on tents instead of me.  Wink


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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 11:01:53 am »

To add to Stagg's excellent post, I have one of the longest drives to/from the event, beaten by few other players, and by players coming from other countries.  Each year, for the last 3, I stay until Brett leaves on Sunday.  If he says "good enough", then, and only then do we part ways.  The weather turned to shit, and we did what we could around camp and inside the Shtab.  Stagg's two way trip mileage is each way for me, moreso if I help Brett bring stuff home.  This year, 2650 miles total.

This is partially why I refuse to take a passenger on this epic journey.  I'm leaving when the work is done, or done enough that Brett gives me the OK to go.  I can't get you home by midnight Sunday so you can have a full night's rest for work Monday.  I'm not even going to try.

I really like Doorman's suggestion he made at the event.  Charge an extra $50 on the field fee.  Those players that remain until around noon on Sunday (our average pack up time for the last 3 years on the WARPAC side), get that money back (provided they actually help...)  Those who can't, for whatever obligation (legit or otherwise, doesn't matter), if you bail out on the hard work, then tough titties on getting your $50 back.

It must be awfully nice to sit at home and read about folks taking tents down 2, 3, 4 weeks after the action was over.  I know I hate it.  And I wish I lived closer.  I'd love for my EW trip to only be 300 miles each way.

WARPAC wise, I think next year, if we push hard, and get the Shtab totally packed up on Saturday, we could then just leave up a single tent for all the folks staying to help with teardown on Sunday.  If we reach the point where we're all packed up on Saturday and just have little shit to do on Sunday, even better!
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 01:19:23 pm »

We long ago figured out that when it comes to help, you ONLY want the help that wants to be there.  Otherwise you just end up with hasty slipshod work that causes as much damage as it helps. 

I think that this shift alone should do the trick.  Tents really are the lion that eats us every damn year around this time... 

East Wind I we did shelter halves which ended up spread here there and everywhere to such an extent that we eventually just raked them into a pile and burned them. 

East Wind II I ended up spending the next month cleaning, drying, and repairing GP Smalls although thankfully not troop tents since that year everyone owned their own tents anyhow. 

East Wind III the ice storm that showed up on the last day caused such a cataclysmic mess out of our canvas GP Medium that it literally took up fully 1/2 of a duece bed on the way home.  It drained a steady stream of water for weeks and even then once I unfolded it several weeks later after many weeks of warm balmy weather it was still full of ice.   It took the better part of a week of work to get that one back fit and trim. 

East Wind IV, the troop tent was not only left up for Trucker and I to take down it was also left chocked full of trash and bullshit for us to clean up as well. 

East Wind V, was the year that tipped the scale and forced the soft change in policy.

East Wind VI is the year we had to draw the line in the sand. 
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2014, 07:18:36 pm »

I'm sold on the idea lol. I need a good tent anyway. With the #707 transportation to and from D-Day should be a synch.
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 08:31:27 pm »

Warpac could always assemble zelt-castles if need be.  Grin
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2014, 08:36:15 pm »

This was EW 7.  The only EW that I did not personally get to help tear down was EW6.

In all those years I have never seen a complete tear down get done by the the players.

I say players, because active participants ensure they were square with Allan or Brett before leaving (and many, many people do just that)

However the players, pay their money, and expect to be taken care of.

They expect that because they live far away somebody will take up the slack filling in their trenches. 
They expect that because work/family/anything else happening, that somebody else is willing to jump in and cover for them. 
Somebody will take up the slack, moving the porta-shitters back.
Somebody will pick up the slack repacking their tent that they stuffed into a ball.
Somebody will pick up all the little pieces of trash left inside their tent.
Somebody will load up all the trucks, and take them home.
Somebody will buy them a tent.
Somebody will repair that tent and then store it for next year.
Somebody will.....

Turns out my name is "somebody."  Along with about 6 other people this year.

This year's list is/was.

Allan
Brett
David
Shannon
Curfman
Stagg
Cardz
Dirtpro


You think your squad's tent is a big deal?  Try figuring out the 100s of man hours required to make this event happen.

The inevitable conclusion is; the more crap that the Admin's can eliminate the better.

Troop tents, are the troop's problem.  That saves lots of time, weight, and money for the two Admin.  Think its too expensive?  Welcome to their problems, but only a tiny fraction of it.
We just got back from a "4 day, NO-expenses paid, work in the sun, and then the rain" weekend vacation. 

Until that stops being the normal way to wrap up an EW event, then everybody will have to get used to pulling their actual weight.
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2014, 08:15:19 am »

In a less frustrated tone: 

We have grown too big while at the same time shrinking our local help base.  So many of our previous great helpers have gone off to pursue new lives elsewhere (mostly the Marines) while at the same time our admin load has grown larger. 

We just need to contract down to a manageable size. 

Tents is the obvious monster.  They have killed the us every year frequently remaining an issue well into June/July time frame.   What we have in inventory is now all cleaned up, settled and put away after not an insignificant amount of work obviously but I'll not have to spend 4th of July washing and drying floors so I consider this a huge success so far. 

Stoves have been an equal monster in the past, the polish seemed to work out much better than the usual painting gig so they cleaned up well and fast this year partially I suspect because unlike last year where one stove was having to run balls out to heat a medium, they by and large were run much cooler heating the smalls so overall finish wear was greatly reduced making them a lot faster to clean up.   This will not be much of an issue next year since I plan to have essentially no pot belly stoves in inventory.  One has already been handed over to Gallion and another is slated to go to Ready.  One already belongs to Furnas and another to Z meaning I actually only own ONE as of right now.  That one will be pretty easy for me to manage.   The other heaters are all pretty easy to care for so they should pose little hassle. 

Next up is excess gear.  We routinely pack too much kit into the field that goes unused.  I am making a decent sized goodie pile for One Shepherd handing off a bunch of kit that is more useful to them than to us and plan to draw down inventories of much of the other kit that in in excess of needs such as some of the PRC-77 radios and many of the other under utilized systems to again reduce our transport/packing/unpacking footprint.   
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 06:01:29 pm »

i think it be appropriate for those who take extended days off for this event to take 2 whole weeks to participate, and assist in Construction/Deconstruction of said tents and other things. (I plan on staying for almost 2 weeks to help with this in 2015. It seems most people arent so fond of Military things.)
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aswayze
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2014, 06:06:53 pm »

Most folks really are pretty fond, it's just hard to match reality with what they would like to do. 

Either way, it will be a lot easier in 2015, the kitchen trailers would soul stealing hard to set up and take down, all we'll have for event stuff this year will just be the Ready and TOC tents both of which are not too bad to deal with. 

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